Saturday, September 20, 2008

Think About It...

Here I shall post controversies, statements, questions and the like. I am doing this to catalyze the public's thinking. It can be fun to consider controversies, especially ones you never realized existed. My goal is that these postings will make you think, and spur you to post a response, I would love to know what people are thinking, the exchange of knowledge and opinions is the only way to advance in this world, from new knowledge one can create more and possibly discover something brilliant. Without the sharing of knowledge, opinions, or thought, no advancements would be possible. Conversations open up new points of view and lighten every aspect of a situation, it's a brilliant way to enhance your understanding. As brainstorming aids the dissection of a topic, conversing aids the understanding of a controversy and allows someone to view the depth of a simple question. In addition, you should be aware of others' opinions, otherwise, how do you know if your opinion is really your opinion? An outside opinion can cause yours to change, because the new can present a new side you never noticed. Conversation can be a truly fascinating experience, but only if there is more than one person participating.

In an English class, we read 1984 by George Orwell. My teacher handed out a sheet of paper with a list of statements and we had to decide whether we agreed with them, disagreed or couldn't decide. Some of them were very interesting to me. We had to choose one to debate in an essay, and I found that having to explain your opinion can change it completely. So if you read this and decide where your loyalties lie, choose one to write about or discuss the topic with someone, it can be enlightening. Especially ones you are undecided about, writing about it or discussing it can lift the confusion. I unfortunately cannot source this paper because my teacher didn't write it nor did she include her source, but I henceforth release any claims to the statements being original, only my opinions on them are my own. Here we go: (words in parentheses are some of my thoughts, I hope they will act as an aid to spur yours)

1.Those who would exchange freedom for security deserve neither.
--(so do we, as a public, not deserve freedom because we gave up some freedoms, like stealing/ common law, in order to have an orderly society?)(I think Thomas Jefferson once commented on this as well)
2. To assure our country's freedom, the government should be able to spy on its citizens.
3. Patriotism means supporting your government during times of war.
--(how do you define patriotism?)
4. Torture of a person who is a threat to our country's freedom is acceptable as long as the person does not die.
--(what kind of torture?)
--(is it better to torture someone now to get information out of him or her about a threat and be able to save hundreds, or thousands of people later by dispelling said threat? Is it okay to hurt one person to save one hundred others? one thousand? a state? a country? a school of children?)
5. People who are a serious threat to the government should be able to be held in prison without being charged.
--( how does one know someone is a serious threat?)
6. The government has a right to know what people are reading so that they may determine who might be a threat.
7. Society would be safer if we had security cameras in public places to catch potential criminals.
8. For an idea to exist, we must have words to express it.
--(an idea exists in your mind, but is it not real until someone else has heard it?)
9. Reporters should submit their work to government officials so they may determine if it's a threat to the country.
10. The only way to prepare for peace is to be prepared for war.




What is reality?
-is it tangible?
-how do you know you aren't dreaming right now?
-ideas and things
-things-finite? are real?
-ideas-changing? abstractly real?

Brain vs Mind
-is the brain a vehicle for your mind?
--temporary inability to recall something is because the path to attain the knowledge is under construction??
-mind wanders- not brain wanders
-brain: scientific -mind: feelings, ideas
-you can have multiple versions of an idea of a chair when you are told to grab one but the chair you are told to grab is only one version

Perception -do you think it plays an important role??

Perception
How do we know that what I see as the color blue is really the same thing you see as blue and not just what your brain has been taught to define as blue. What if my blue is really your purple?


Redefinition
Redefinition is an interesting concept, it is employed often and often without our realizing it.
Is redefining something for your purpose justifiable?
example: cloning--is it disobedience or progress? was the eating of the apple by Adam and Eve disobedience or progress? from a scientific standpoint? what about flying? disobedience because we weren't made with wings or progress beause we are applying our superior minds to enhance our lives?


What is intelligence?

How do we know what we know?

Is knowing the truth important?

Is truth something you create (when using rhetoric) or is truth something that objectively exists?

Rhetoric

At school I was assigned to read an article dealing with rhetoric and rhetorical strategies. I found it very interesting and I now see it used in everyday life, even in the recent presidential debates, both candidates used rhetoric.

Quotes from: Chapter 1: 'Rhetoric and/or Philosophy' book and author unknown

Rhetorical strategies:
-redefine terms
-rhetorical questions
-appeal to popularity
-qualifying terms or making a distinction
-using connotative language


-**"the art, as they [Sophists] declared, by which opinions and beliefs are shaped, ignorance instructed, minds and heart persuaded, persons changed, careers advanced, communities joined, and the fates of cities and nations guided."

-**"the art by which societies decide the things that matter the most"

-**"technique, or collection of techniques for composing "effective" discourse'

-**"manipulate a crowd by playing on its preconceptions and emotions merely for personal gain"

-"Shouldn't we care, for example, what justice is? Or should we care only about getting our way? Shouldn't the persuaders care if their persuasion helps or hurts the community? Or is the persuader just an isolated, disconnected, self-serving individual, a kind of privateer? Ans besides can the superficial manipulator I'm describing really be successful with intelligent. well-informed, and thoughtful persons, who care about the subject and have spent some time inquiring into it
?"

-**"finding, or inventing the argument most worthy of belief in a given situation by imagining the possibilities and by considering different, even opposing points of view."

-**"the use of reason and critical thought to search for, or invent, the most persuasive argument, the one most worthy of belief, in a given set of circumstances."

** means definition of rhetoric in article.

So what is rhetoric to you? Have you used it? Do you now notice it?? Will you now notice it or use it?- rhetoric is an interesting concept, and definitely one which I wish I had the time to delve further into.

Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith in Men in Black.

"Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it."

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."




In my AP US history class we recently studied the formation of the constitution and thus the new government. Logically along with this we studied the opinions of different groups about the role of government. This caused me to begin to think about what I think a government should be.

Is government around to provide protection?
...provide medicine, roads, buildings?
...manage trade/commerce?
...settle disputes with the courts?
...organize the leaders of the country?

Then a few days ago, after I had been ruminating about this idea for a month or so, I found an article which happened to be in the Indianapolis Star Newspaper titled, "What Does Indianapolis Value" by reporter: Brendan O'Shaughnessy. It discussed the purpose of government as I had been considering it. -"is the gov a provider of services?" -"is the gov a cultural institution responsible for civic improvement?" So now back to outside the article, more questions/possible answers: -"some would say, government is here to protect us. Others would say, government is here to provide social services or protect private property." (http://www.federalrepublic.net/?p=8/)
-John Locke in his Second Treatise on Government says :the purpose of government was to protect life, liberty, and property.

SO there are some theories on government's purpose, what are your ideas? do you agree/ disagree with some of these points? do you have a new theory??

Some random inquiries...

-Is it cowardly to retreat from attainable knowledge?

-**What shows love?
-words, actions, etc

-Battle against ignorance
-is it not the only never ending battle?

-Don't you have to understand the inner workings of a system in order to undermine it?

-In hindsight, vision is 20/20
-do you believe this?

-Undermine a system from the inside out: deplete medical supplies, stop education of doctors and nurses- how does a group compete in a war if it can’t heal its individuals??

-**You have to observe all new occurrences in a community and draw connections- seeing a decrease in medical supplies= possibility of an enemy undermining system by attacking the healing capabilities of its enemy

-**without the ability to heal we would be completely vulnerable if attacked

-**soul vs life
is there a difference

-how do you win a war?

-instilling fear in a community is an effective way of undermining it in order to win a war. People won’t communicate with one another b/c they don’t know who they can trust, and without knowing all the information, because people are too afraid to share it, and their opinions, how are you supposed to recognize patterns?

-**is there a difference between killing someone and taking a life?

-**what makes life…life?

-is studying your own life important?
-aka touring your own hometown? Learning your city’s history? Learning your parents or grandparents history?

-**is it more important to study what happens when two things are put together or why it happens?

-is it okay to hurt someone because of what they are? Who they are? Where they were born? Into which family/community/country they were born? Is it not the same in a court case that a bystander in a robbery is innocent? They were there during the robbery just as an enemy civilian was there during a time of war. What about those forced to fight by their country, they are not there by choice, not fighting or killing you by their own volition but in self preservation. Then why is it okay to kill an Iraqi civilian or stop an Iraqi in an airport for questioning just because of where (s)he lives or what (s)he is? What about who (s)he is??

-**“I have nothing but ignorance”

-**why don’t questions/problems wait in a line, do they have to attack you all at once??

-**we are at the mercy of our neighbors

-when is something indelible?

-what is common sense?

NOTE:the starred (**) items are ideas/concepts/quotes partially or fully borrowed/ inspired from an author I met through fanfiction.net under the screen name of Kathryn's NomDePlume. She granted me her permission to borrow the ideas and I henceforth denounce any claim to these quotes. Her story 'Every Other Midnight' is a wonderful, thought provoking, engaging piece of literary work and you should check it out if you can :)

3 comments:

Kathryn Amonett said...

Holy hell, there were WAY too many quesitons in there to respond to them all.

In future, take it down a notch so our brains don't go haywire.

1. Those who would exchange freedom for security deserve neither.

Disagree. The pretty words sound noble and honest, but would you judge a mother who gives up her freedom for the sake of protecting her child?

2. To assure our country's freedom, the government should be able to spy on its citizens.

Desperate times...


3. Patriotism means supporting your government during times of war.

You can love a country as you love your friend, even if they sometimes do things you don't like, you are hardly going to bail on them.


4. Torture of a person who is a threat to our country's freedom is acceptable as long as the person does not die.

---I don't know that any one person we could torture for information could be a threat to the freedom of our entire country, but if it is for the greater good, as you say, if many innocent lives could be saved, then perhaps yes, in theory. Getting information is worth the sin. However, in practice... how do you know if the information you want is worth it before you begin torturing someone? Who will take responsibility for that?

5. People who are a serious threat to the government should be able to be held in prison without being charged.

If they are a big enough of a threat, they are important enough to account for it. If we don't let them defend themselves it's only because we have something to hide.


6. The government has a right to know what people are reading so that they may determine who might be a threat.

Patriot Act? I like my privacy as much as, or perhaps more than, the next person, but if I'm not doing anything wrong, then why should I be bothered? In theory I don't mind it. It's only if that power is abused that I'd mind.

7. Security cameras. I think a lot of these questions come down to trust. In theory these ideas are not bad. They are to help us. We just don't trust the government to not abuse that power. Our privacy is invaded. But does it say we have a right to privacy? Roe v Wade? Anyone?

8. For an idea to exist, we must have words to express it.

An idea is an idea, whether you share it or not. But an idea that cannot be put into words is my definition of emotion. An idea, a though, a plan, can be communicated.
Emotions? Words try and continually fail.

9. Reporters should submit their work to government officials so they may determine if it's a threat to the country.

No.

10. The only way to prepare for peace is to be prepared for war.

No.

Reality--
Ask a madman what reality is and you won't get any better answer from anyone else. Reality is what you make it. Who knows if you are right or not and what does it matter?


Perception. Everything might be seen in the same way, but processed differently in the mind. Why else does the same food taste good to one person, and terrible to another? Clearly there are associations there, some links the mind has made in our life that accounts for it. Who knows what that may be.

I'd tend to go with neither disobedience, nor progress. Who makes the rules to say we are disobeying them (I'm not religious, so you'll have to forgive me for excluding God) and how are we to know if we are making progress or ruin? All we know is that we are learning something. Just as Eve did. And in my book, there are a lot worse reasons for doing things than for knowledge.

I'm not even going to bother with the truth. I despise the concept.


Government. Well, I suppose you mean the US government. It was created to represent and carry out the wishes of the people. If the people want something, the people should do it. It isn't the end all be all power. We are. We the people.
We should stop griping about what the goverment should do for us when we should be thinking what we can do for each other.


-Is it cowardly to retreat from attainable knowledge?

Perhaps. But perhaps the cowards are the only ones in their right minds.


-**What shows love?

Did I really ask this question? hmm.. no idea.

-Battle against ignorance
-is it not the only never ending battle?

no, I'd say striving for any kind of perfection is a losing battle. ex, world peace

-Don't you have to understand the inner workings of a system in order to undermine it?

Yes

-In hindsight, vision is 20/20
-do you believe this?
Nope. You might look back and be just as confused as ever. Sometimes it brings clarity, other times no. Perhaps it's not the distance of time, but how your mind has improved since it occured...



-**without the ability to heal we would be completely vulnerable if attacked

sure, there is a reason it's against the rules to attack hospitals in times of war. It's just bad form.

-**soul vs life
is there a difference

no. but that's just me. I know I write a lot about them being different, but I make up a lot of stuff for the sake of fiction. I don't really believe that they are seperate things.

-how do you win a war?

Would it be silly to reply "by defeating the enemy"?


-**is there a difference between killing someone and taking a life?

Now THAT is a question of rhetoric.

-**what makes life…life?

gracious, I have no idea. Again, I'd probably have to be medical here and say the flowing blood, beating heart, and pumping lungs...

-is studying your own life important?

If you don't understand yourself, how can you understand others? Likewise, what does it matter if you know or don't know who you are if you can't see beyond yourself anyway?

-**is it more important to study what happens when two things are put together or why it happens?

I don't think you truly learn util you've answered both.

-is it okay to hurt someone because of what they are? Who they are? Where they were born? Into which family/community/country they were born? Is it not the same in a court case that a bystander in a robbery is innocent? They were there during the robbery just as an enemy civilian was there during a time of war. What about those forced to fight by their country, they are not there by choice, not fighting or killing you by their own volition but in self preservation. Then why is it okay to kill an Iraqi civilian or stop an Iraqi in an airport for questioning just because of where (s)he lives or what (s)he is? What about who (s)he is??

Of course it's not ok. But I'd like you to find a better method...

-**“I have nothing but ignorance”

Oh so true.


-**we are at the mercy of our neighbors

No man is an island. ~John Donne

-when is something indelible?

Everything is. What is done is done, but that is not to say it can't be done again, and done better.

-what is common sense?

Not letting personal feelings get in the way of what is best for everyone.


Phew, that took ages. Still didn't get them all. Easy on the questions next time!

P7P said...

I know there are a lot of questions presented in the article, however, I don’t think it necessary to decrease the number to save a brain from becoming confused. I merely presented a bunch of questions that I find interesting to discuss. Over time I keep adding more, and it has just accumulated into what it is now. Having a bunch of questions gives people a chance to look at a range of subject matter and allows them to pick one to think about or respond to that interests them. I hardly expected a response to all of the questions, that would take forever.

I too disagree with the “Those who would exchange freedom for security deserve neither.” Is that not what every governmental system is based upon on some level? To have order you need laws and to have laws you need to take freedom. The U.S. is the land of the free, yet we too relinquish part of our freedom in striving for an organized society.

“Patriotism means supporting your government during times of war.” I like your way of seeing patriotism… “You can love a country as you love your friend, even if they sometimes do things you don't like, you are hardly going to bail on them.” I still don’t know what I believe patriotism is, it’s a touchy subject for me, my mother’s side of the family is very patriotic, so I have had multiple ideas for a lifetime on patriotism.

4. Torture of a person who is a threat to our country's freedom is acceptable as long as the person does not die.

---I don't know that any one person we could torture for information could be a threat to the freedom of our entire country, but if it is for the greater good, as you say, if many innocent lives could be saved, then perhaps yes, in theory. Getting information is worth the sin. However, in practice... how do you know if the information you want is worth it before you begin torturing someone? Who will take responsibility for that?

—yes and, how do you know that the information attained it even true. People will do anything to make torture, the physical pain, stop. And ‘anything’ can’t always be the truth. In addition, it is illegal to use any evidence attained through torture in a legal case, such as a court case, so in that realm the information would be useless, however, in other realms, such as declarations of war, it wouldn’t be useless.

5. People who are a serious threat to the government should be able to be held in prison without being charged.

If they are a big enough of a threat, they are important enough to account for it. If we don't let them defend themselves it's only because we have something to hide.

-I hadn’t considered that


8. For an idea to exist, we must have words to express it.

An idea is an idea, whether you share it or not. But an idea that cannot be put into words is my definition of emotion. An idea, a though, a plan, can be communicated.
Emotions? Words try and continually fail.

-I never could some up with a satisfactory definition of emotion, now I am a leap closer

I'd tend to go with neither disobedience, nor progress. Who makes the rules to say we are disobeying them (I'm not religious, so you'll have to forgive me for excluding God) and how are we to know if we are making progress or ruin? All we know is that we are learning something. Just as Eve did. And in my book, there are a lot worse reasons for doing things than for knowledge.

-I couldn’t agree more

Kathryn Amonett said...

Thanks for post. It's nice to put your brain to work. I usually shy away from political questions... because they are so sensitive, but I did my best here.

Keep the questions coming! post again soon.